Pele – Mermaid diagrams as themeable SVG

pele.run
540 points dchest1 day ago 51 comments
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burgeonlab|about 4 hours ago
I've switched to D2Lang for its easier syntax and the fact Mermaid is hard pushing AI. Appreciate it, Kepano, for making Mermaid a bit more palatable!

[1]: https://d2lang.com/

whimsicalism|about 2 hours ago
tech that approaches new change with curiosity rather than pseudo-religious turning away will win out because of the type of people who are building the former
skydhash|about 2 hours ago
> tech that approaches new change with curiosity rather than pseudo-religious turning away will win out because of the type of people who are building the former

Why not

  tech that approaches new change with religious recklessness rather than critical thinking will lose out because of users that are tired of regressions and breakages.
lukeify|about 22 hours ago
Anytime I try mermaid for anything more complex than a toy diagram I always end up absolutely frustrated by the arcane and topologically poor layout that is produced.

Styling seems like a trivial problem by comparison.

kepano|about 21 hours ago
I strongly agree, and that's why I designed Pele to only follow its syntax not its layout. See the examples https://pele.run/examples

The playground also has a Compare mode https://pele.run/playground

WhrRTheBaboons|30 minutes ago
FYI, first two examples are identical here: https://pele.run/examples/timeline

Edit: So is #7 (and almost #8), #9, 10, 11, 12 are identical as well

DenisM|about 18 hours ago
The layout quality is very impressive!

Have you given much thought to diffing diagrams? The source can be version controlled and a source diff can be seen, but a visual diff would be amazing and easily sway me from writing prose to writing diagrams.

nkmnz|about 7 hours ago
I've tested a couple of diagrams that I found on some website and I couldn't see any major differences in the layout. Can you point to some systematic differences?
CrimsonRain|about 18 hours ago
Could you not make Pele part of Marmaid or they wont accept a contribution like this?
blazarquasar|about 11 hours ago
To quote another reply regarding mermaid by @kepano:

> Mermaid.js has transitioned to "mermaid.ai" and is losing its original vision. Take a look at their new site.

> The latest version of Mermaid (12.1) ships with yet another layout engine (three now), and has a questionable safety record (see CVEs). In Obsidian 1.13 we had to introduce a new toggle/warning because of potential unsafe Mermaid diagrams.

https://x.com/kepano/status/2111575190081847776

ferroman|about 10 hours ago
Then you may like tool I use https://ferroman.github.io/diagc/
jd3|about 10 hours ago
I don't even bother writing mermaid by hand when I'm making decision trees. Instead of visualizing it using PrecisionTree in excel (I just use that for the actual data modeling), I've been first modeling the tree in plaintext, then pipe it through claude with a previous tree I've made as reference. I then ask it to use the content of the current tree and match it to the style of the previous one.
kylepomykala|about 13 hours ago
I have the same issue. A neat trick is to have it so the large language model creates an HTML file with what you need inside of it too. That allows for even more flexibility.
tptacek|about 21 hours ago
Graph layout is a famously hard problem!
mcapodici|about 19 hours ago
I wonder if it is almost like writing. In that to make the diagram that communicates well you need to have solved the problem properly.
alfiedotwtf|about 17 hours ago
A common layout implementation is to provide constraints to a SAT Solver… so you were close :)
wongarsu|about 4 hours ago
To my taste, most automatic layout implementations produce horrible layouts. Yes, you can use SAT-solve and optimize your way towards a node ordering that produces no crossing lines, but those rarely create something that makes intuitive sense of the content

Good layout is a lot more like writing, in that you have to think about how the intended recipient will perceive and what you want them to notice in which order, and how to make it easy to follow the various relationships

thegagne|about 19 hours ago
I have had good luck with D2 and elk or dagre. If you get into the nitty gritty of elk you can do a _lot_ with it.
jhoechtl|about 13 hours ago
The tala layout engine for d2 is now included it provides a very good layout.
jeffreygoesto|about 12 hours ago
If only it had a good documentation. I really like the elkjs JavaScript version (thanks, Ulf!) bitte unfortunately transcoding makes transferring the Java docs even harder...
giancarlostoro|about 21 hours ago
I kinda just shove what I want out of it to literally any basic model from the frontier labs, I usually dont need anything super fancy, but it does the job, even color coded regions for me (which is fancier than I usually do) and then I can shove that into Lucid since it can render them.
Ancapistani|about 15 hours ago
> A flowchart subgraph keeps its own direction even when it links to nodes outside the subgraph.

This, in and of itself, is sufficient reason for me to switch, even if it were slower than Mermaid.js.

I’ve not even made it through the list yet and I’m sold.

neomantra|about 4 hours ago
This was pretty inspiring -- I have been working on file format rendering for a pager in terminal+browser and totally forgot about Mermaid!

Much of the work uses SVG as an intermediary so this Pele pattern works great. OP is a TypeScript project, seems great for that ecosystem.

Searching found this go-mermaid library [1] that operates similarly with SVG its target. We have a Golang TUI picture/SVG widget and a Golang WASM/browser embedder, so I just forked it and had an LLM add a live Mermaid/SVG demo using them [2]. The demo is intended for go-mermaid so it uses its rasterizer, composited to our widget.

(took <15 minutes since I had worked similarly just days ago and had the components at the ready, plus could point at Pele; these LLMs are ridiculous at forging from patterns)

Cool thing is that same visual experience can be had in a terminal if it supports Kitty graphics protocol.

[1] https://github.com/zkrebbekx/go-mermaid

[2] https://neomantra.github.io/go-mermaid/

bilibali|about 3 hours ago
Thank you very much for this!

I use a build script for my static website that renders markdown files into HTML files and swaps out any mermaid codeblocks with rendered SVGs. I used mermaidjs for this but it is very heavy for this purpose (needs an entire chromium instance for the rendering).

This seemed like a perfect fit for my use case and I already swapped it in. I noticed that the layouts were not 1 to 1, but to my pleasant surprise I actually liked the ones Pele renders better than mermaidjs.

dkga|about 13 hours ago
Brazilian me thought it was an homage to Pelé. I’m glad the text explains the name.
mxuribe|about 2 hours ago
I'm not Brazilian but i grew up in a world where EVERYONE knew who Pele is (maybe i'm a little old?)...So, i also thought the same, that this was named after him! :-)
9dev|about 8 hours ago
Amazing. I just migrated the diagrams on the docs site of a project of mine, and they just look great[0]. Before, I had a combination of mermaid, panzoom, and some minor workarounds to get integrated styling and dark theme work right. Pele not only takes care of all of that, but also manages a nicer layout!

[0] https://cetacean.mazetti.me/authentication#oidc

vb-startr|about 4 hours ago
Nice work...will try to incorporate it in our tools and projects. Dark mode support is a good highlight. I appreciate this work. Please keep it up.
nickmain|about 24 hours ago
Does the official Mermaid library still require a full or headless browser environment in order to lay out the SVG? If so, Pele is great news for embedding Mermaid rendering in other places.
falsaberN1|about 20 hours ago
There is also Merman on Github that outputs a SVG.

https://github.com/Latias94/merman

dont__panic|about 6 hours ago
Very nice, bookmarked. I built something similar as an Astro plugin using svgdom: https://better-static-sites.github.io/build-tools/mermaid/

It still boggles my mind that mermaid's devs think you need an entire freakin' browser to render an SVG. Sometimes I think people need to be reminded of the fundamentals.

invokestatic|about 22 hours ago
The python mermaidx library works for this, which works well for generating documentation with embedded diagrams as part of CI/CD but the layout/rendering can sometimes be very wonky. For instance I will have a bunch of connections crossing over each other instead of neatly arranged to avoid it. Changing the layout settings does not fix it so sometimes I will just export it from mmdc and embed a png.
Imustaskforhelp|about 23 hours ago
Is pele open source?

I tried to find the source code of it but I was unable in finding so

Edit: found it, https://github.com/obsidianmd/pele

Also folks, this is a good reminder to please have a github icon on the top of the page to easily show git/github links if the app is open source, also helps in the fact that I can star your projects and bookmark them more easily :-D

blktiger|about 23 hours ago
haburka|about 10 hours ago
Thank goodness. Theming mermaid and using it server side is such a nightmare. I had many issues trying to get it to work competently with CSS variables for dark mode / light dark. This seems way better.
druvisc|about 23 hours ago
Just FYI, "pele" is "mouse" in Latvian. :)
hmokiguess|about 23 hours ago
and "skin" in portuguese :)
apodik|about 23 hours ago
and a football player in brazil :D
mixmastamyk|about 22 hours ago
Only with an accent on the final é.
mtros|about 22 hours ago
and "d*ck" in slovak...
aslakhellesoy|about 22 hours ago
Spade in French
Duke64|about 10 hours ago
No meaning in german
kinduff|about 19 hours ago
Noting that the mermaid preview in the playground is broken.
kepano|about 18 hours ago
Broken in what way? It works for me. Do you have any details? Browser, errors, etc?
kinduff|about 18 hours ago
Here are the details, sorry for not attaching before https://gist.github.com/kinduff/7eb14bf348fdec4e664b59e758d1...
kepano|about 4 hours ago
Thanks! Investigating...
shellerik|about 17 hours ago
The examples are not very dark-mode friendly
syngrog66|about 10 hours ago
longtime user of GraphViz for that kind of use case but I have a TODO to try programmatic generation of my next software diagram in Inkscape's XML format.
dbg31415|about 19 hours ago
Tools like this are so amazing because they allow Claude to edit and draw and save to a single markdown file. So practical! Version control friendly. People can use them, sure. Buy AI can really take off with tools like this.
notaproton|about 17 hours ago
FOUC in the big 26 is crazy work
wolframhempel|about 11 hours ago
Blatant self promotion: But if you'd like your Mermaid diagrams rendered in pretty isometric 3D, we've added Mermaid support to Arcentry lately: https://arcentry.com/blog/isometric-mermaid-diagrams-with-ar...